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SearchSubmitted by Alaa on Tue, 19/10/2004 - 22:26.
( categories: )
as part of our partnership with ArabDev Arabdev asked us to attend the ActionApps Workcamp which is being held in Cape Town, South Africa from the 24th to the 29th.
ActionApps is a content management system geared at NGOs who do lots of campaigns, it is being developed by The Association For Progressive Communication (an umbrella organization ArabDev is part of which has a strong FOSS focus)
The WorkCamp will include training streams for people who want to implement websites using ActionApps and development streams for people interesting in hacking it.
check its Agenda
The idea is to help ArabDev arabize ActionApps and help them build a website for the Menya Project with it.
Alaa will be attending the developers stream of the camp.
Next time
Next time something like this comes up it might be more logical to nominate candidates to attend and then vote on them.
I understood from the post that this is an EGLUG/Arabdev thing; if so, then an open vote is appropriate.
-- Panem et *burp* circenses
hmm
I was actually personally asked by arabdev to go to the camp, but to be perfectly honest I did not suggest that we open it for voting or anything like that (they probably wouldn't have minded).
but also note that our general policy has been to let whatever initiatives organize themselves with minimal interference, I was contacted by ArabDev to do this and I did it.
but since this actualy involves a privilge (paid trip to south africa, chance to meet hackers from all over the world etc) maybe you're right and a more formal process is required.
what do you folks think?
also consider the practical details of the process, are our partners/donors/whatever required to accept beforehand the results of our democratic vote? or do they have a say in the list of acceptable candidates?
cheers,
Alaa
http://www.manalaa.net
"u know i once dream that the office of mobinil is from el 7`os :S and the one that answer u and tell u rasidak a girl called ghada"
sinse you have been contacted
sinse you have been contacted personally then it shouldn't be on the eglug events it should be in the blogs and if it is an eglug/arabdev event then it should be voted
the best things in life are free --- so as myself
Yes, that sounds reasonable
The distinction here is between personal and EGLUG.
Personal = blog & voting unnecessary EGLUG thing = event & voting & community involvement
-- Panem et *burp* circenses
its not personal
its not really personal, I just explained how my mental process was and I did agree that we should discuss how to handle these cases in the future.
but first.
Story modulke should be used for anything newsworthy IMO we did anounce some non EGLUG news there afterall.
another point is that whatever system we choose don't let it burden initiative, what I mean is lets not adopt rules that say everything should get a vote of approval before it is considered an EGLUG activity, I would prefer if people are empowered to just act, and the community is empowered to iterfere if they don't like what they see (tab3an this does not cover our current situation which both involves a privilege and was not anounced early enough for the community to get a chance to interfere, sorry my bad).
cheers,
Alaa
http://www.manalaa.net
"u know i once dream that the office of mobinil is from el 7`os :S and the one that answer u and tell u rasidak a girl called ghada"
EGLUG IS GROUP OF INDIVIDUAL-presonal- EFFORTS
alaa has connected ArabDev ,they asked him to make some voluntary work as EGlUG member .alaa make it fast and asked for volunteers to work on the workshops will be organized by Arabdev ,and eglug become partner of this project(El-Menya) .now it is not Alaa it is EGLUG ,but Alaa who the one tried to organize partnership with organization which has a strong FOSS focus.
They connect him or he start connecting them it doesn't matter. they now know Alaa as EGLUG member and Alaa represent EGLUG members . they now asked Alaa to go South Africa . now we will tell them hey arabdev stop we will vote who will go instead of saying yeah we can represent eglug and our partner arabdev and our ideas is 1 2 3. it is also ridiculous to connect some one and pay efforts then we vote on member x who may be active but he can not communicate with them or the original vision is not clear .
the most suitable pearson who fits for this job or task the person knows how they deal and what is the goals of this camp and etc. now if we will have a vote-poll- ,vote option will be like 1-Alaa 2-Alaa 3-Alaa. and if there is varieties of option there will be session by alaa to x to tell him who r they , and the story the vote may be logical if alaa has some reasons deny him to travel or to attend the camp.
the point is it is not personal event to be posted at blog section . alaa will represent EGLUG it should be posted at event ,and we should be proud for this action as one member of us has some effort on ActionApps.
members should seek a chance for spreading foss in Egypt and all around -representing EGLUG -NOT TO WAIT other's feed or efforts under the name of democracy .
i wish there is events on our calender . i wish there is vote to vote for who organize the event .
we should think how we will be represented.and helping to attempt this process.
Diaa Radwan
I agree with conceptor
I have attended the first meeting with ArabDev and EGLUG in Sakia with alaa and manal ... and I completely agree with conceptor, such vote could slow down personal efforts on a certain comunications and activities. Take care guys, as phaeronix mentioned vaccination is very important ... and I think you might need to start having vaccine for several times before you travel - you should now contact vaccination Dept. in Dokky as I think. Mahmoud Fouad
Great, both of you
the most suitable pearson who fits for this job or task the person knows how they deal and what is the goals of this camp and etc. now if we will have a vote-poll- ,vote option will be like 1-Alaa 2-Alaa 3-Alaa. and if there is varieties of option there will be session by alaa to x to tell him who r they , and the story the vote may be logical if alaa has some reasons deny him to travel or to attend the camp.
Thanks for choosing alaa on behalf of everyone else. Where would our democracy be without your ability to presume what everyone else thinks?
And no, it wouldn't slow anything down if we had to vote. Next time we'll just announce it earlier. And even if it would slow things down I personally don't give one royal fsck. Important matters are voted on in EGLUG, that is the end of the story. If we decide "oh, this thing doesn't need voting on" in one important case such as this kind then we can apply that fscked up kind of thinking on all the rest of the decisions.
I forked from Linux Egypt for democracy. There were other reasons but this was the biggest one.
Take that away and I'm gone.
-- Panem et *burp* circenses
everyone represent eglug
I do not have the authority to chose alaa on behalf of everyone else,but i have my voice . which is choosing the person who connected them from the start of story .
and IMO democracy has nothing to do with this case .someone -on free open Democratic community- connected organization x ,then organization x ask him to represent eglug the free open democratic arabic foss community .-logically who should represent eglug there-
we can represent eglug somewhere else.
i am not focusing on alaa , or else .i am focusing on the one who arranged the cooperation with place x .
Diaa Radwan
No.
I do not have the authority to chose alaa on behalf of everyone else
I beg to differ. From the original post:
now if we will have a vote-poll- ,vote option will be like 1-Alaa 2-Alaa 3-Alaa.
Next point.
it is also ridiculous to connect some one and pay efforts then we vote
Ridiculous? I'm telling you voting is a method of ensuring the community vision is enforced and you're calling this ridiculous? I learn more about that word every day... oh well, you need an example I guess. Here. I contacted Microsoft Egypt and offered them to participate in our next installfest. Going by your unridiculous line of logic, we'd be showing Longhorn previews. Going by my (admittedly stupid) reasoning, the community would fix my error by voting the initiative out or voting someone in to handle it who shoots it down.
Ridiculous indeed. Now don't show me that word again unless it is in context.
-- Panem et *burp* circenses
Parameters fits on context x
Making vote with X , X and X option differ –assuming : there is someone responsible to choose on behalf- of choosing someone .
Yeah someone will ask in brilliance state the vote option refer to only single person I know it I think we can call it metaphor pointing to –to set priority ,to assure- the one who start orginzing the partnership
Ridiculous is describing the state of a case –situation
Ridiculous word is not mentioned to insult one great known methodology which is voting
Ridiculous is using voting when we need no voting ,also to vote on something is been decided
Ridiculous to call community vision Ridiculous.
Ridiculous may this word has a specific definition .and cretin parameter which I do not know I will not use it unless I find proper man pages for contexts describing Ridiculous states
And If u will connect MS Egypt u r free it is eglug u r free do what ever u want we have no leaders –this is quoted form ur previous talks-I know u will not do that :)-kiddin
What we are looking for is enhance the performance of eglug ,I did state my opinion .and I think you got my point . and also I got your point .
--are we offtopic
Diaa Radwan
I'm going too
I'm going to spend my vacation there, and I'll attend the training stream of the ActionApps Camp as a representative of the Center for Knowledge Society where I work.
Thank u APC for allowing me to attend the training.
Anyone wants a zebra or a monkey..contact me privately.
http://www.manalaa.net
Be careful
Anyone going to South Africa should go check their vaccination status,
the most relevant vaccination to get would be malaria vaccine. Damien just told me one of his freinds got infected by malaria when he went to south Africa.
Good luck, we erfa3o rasna :)
Just my 2 cents
i think the point that yousse
i think the point that youssef wants to say is that everything should be discussed in between the members whenever it concerns the name "eglug" cause this is a community of people under one name
i mean if he goes to any initiative as a linux lover that is not us but if he goes as an eglug member then it should be discussed because what if he gives a bad idea about eglug this will affect us all and i don't want to see this happen to eglug to be known in some places with a bad reputation
i am not against alaa and what he did i beleive alaa will be up to the job and i would have b=voted for him but he shouldn't go as an eglug member as long as we did not discuss it before
i am sure alaa doesn't need to be called an eglug member to be able to participate in such events
and for future simialr situations maybe we should add it to the laws of eglug
pharaonix once proposed to have an eglug badge or something and was said that an eglug member is not accredoted as this membership is given by just subscribing . but if any activity led by eglug is discussed first and ensured the image of eglug is kept then we can have more credit for eglug members
the best things in life are free --- so as myself
individual vs member again
I'm finding it very difficult to track the whole thread so please forgive me if what I say is redundant.
I strongly object to the notion that we should seperate individual initiatives from eglug stuff, the way I'd like this to be is that any FOSS related activity one of our members do they can say they represent eglug in it as long as the activity does not contradict our charter.
don't tell me you are there on an individual basis, I'm in eglug on an individual basis, eglug is a collective of individuals.
the question is not should we start this or not or should we participate in this or not, I think we should encourage any initiative.
the question here, or the need to vote is about what to do in this or that event, who gets to benefit from this or that oppertunity on behalf of eglug.
I don't like the idea that we're going to stop certain initiaves or refuse to recognise them because we fear bad representation, I thought we where supposed to be inclusive, and anyways we have little to loose.
so lets do it the other way round, let people go ahead with their initiatives and after its done if we see something we simply cannot accept we discuss it and see how to avoid it in the future, but don't start putting obstacles because of hypothetical fears.
but this does not negate the nessecity of mentioning each and ever detail on the website so people can keep track and interfere when they feel the need to or participate when they feel like it.
cheers,
Alaa
http://www.manalaa.net
"u know i once dream that the office of mobinil is from el 7`os :S and the one that answer u and tell u rasidak a girl called ghada"
AACamp
Hello Everyone,
I am Leila Hassanin from ArabDev and I want to clarify some confusion - part of which confuses me also. I have asked Alaa to "Represent" ArabDev as a "volunteer" at the ActionApps workshop. The understanding was that ArabDev's name was to be spelled out in the workshop and Alaa represents us as I was not able to attend the workshop. The second understanding was that ArabDev was happy to promote EGLUG at that event, so Alaa was free to use EGLUG's affiliation. Personally I had thought that Alaa will discuss this with all the members. I was impressed by EGLUG's democratic system and I am saddened at this point that Alaa did not represent ArabDev as agreed and that he did not share the news about the workshop early on with all of you. Should I say I hope this experience will promote more transparency???
Leila
big misunderstanding here
nononononono I always said I represent ArabDev, no one was even interested to hear about EGLUG anyway at the camp and they all had very difficult questions about Arabdev that I could not answer.
you're right about the importance of announcing early and how that leads to lack of transperancy, I hope the rest will forgive me knowing that it was only out of lack of time and confusion, I was not keeping it secret and it was discussed several times on IRC in public.
cheers,
Alaa
http://www.manalaa.net
"u know i once dream that the office of mobinil is from el 7`os :S and the one that answer u and tell u rasidak a girl called ghada"
i agree with the point about
i agree with the point about not puting obstacles in front of the individual initiatives and also agree on the transperacy
at then end i would like to make it clear that i am not against any body and that i feel that this thread has given more confidence in our democracy really i'm proud of eglug
the best things in life are free --- so as myself